A Case for the Full-Cut Fit feat. Giorgio Aprile

June 18th, 2014

FacebookTwitterGoogle+PinterestEmail

631

How about this for a name: Giorgio Antonio Leroy Herbert Morrison Aprile. Otherwise known as the Sicilian Sensation, otherwise known as the Godfather of Markham Ontario, otherwise known as “Herbert Morrison” longtime reader & commenter on TSBmen.

We finally met Giorgio in person at our event in Toronto. It was long overdue. After shooting the shit over a few beers, we got down to menswear. You see, his wardrobe is in kind of a weird place. He just dropped a bunch of weight and hasn’t quite stabilized his body yet. Therefore, he hasn’t tailored down his professional wardrobe yet, so all his blazers and trousers are a little “oversized” (at least by typical European inspired #menswear standards).

I didn’t know the whole bit about losing weight when I first met him. I just thought he was bringing back the full-cut sack suit. And I was loving it. Something about having room to move in tailored clothing can be very nostalgic and romantic, when executed properly. Not only does he look comfortable in the roomier fit clothes, but notice the smooth drape and sheen of the fabric with virtually no pulling or stress signs.

In my opinion this fit has a mature, confident, “grown ass man, over my skinny jeans phase” appeal. It’s especially fitting if you talk with your hands and sound like one of Don Corleone’s cousins.

What do you think? Should our friend Herbert Morison get his clothes tailored back down to a slim fit, or should he pioneer the young man’s movement back toward fully cut tailoring?

711

78

82

 

Thanks, as always, for reading.

Yours in style,

TSBmen

 

Photography by Alex Crawford.

FacebookTwitterGoogle+PinterestEmail
ADVERTISEMENT
  • michael

    Slim cut or baggy: there is room for both in a wardrobe. Dress how you feel that day. Your personal style will out in either event if you are doing it right.

  • Sid

    It’s makes a lot of sense to get them tailored closer to the body! Skinny or otherwise, fitted suits will forever remain in style!!

  • Austin

    I’m not a fan of the full cut look because it looks sloppy. Clothes need to give you shape and not be all loosey goosey. I like the style of the blazer with the Italian shoulder and the small pleats. Great detail. Fantastic shoes! Wish I had some of my own. The larger cuff (looks to be about to be about a 1.5 or 2 inches) looks great, but the full cut makes him look larger than he is. His shirt sleeves are too long and the coat sleeves or too short. The banded collar is a nice touch. I feel that the look would look nicer if the jacket’s waist was brought in.

    • Herbert Morrison

      I hear you, but after breaking that jacket in I really like the way it “falls”. Nice you noticed the details–and the cuff is 2″, we keep it gully round’ here. Thanks for reading Austin.

  • Juan

    I am astonished by some of the comments on here, but I’m not going to comment on that. It just seems that a lot of people spend a lot of time looking at #menswear on Instagram and at J.Crew catalogs (FYI: the Ludlow is exactly what’s wrong with today’s suits, i.e. too short, too tight, lapels way too skinny), but have very little actual sartorial knowledge. You’re not supposed to look like you’re wearing your kid brother’s suit.

    This is what a suit jacket from the dark age of men’s fashion (ca. 1978-2008) looks like, it looks NOTHING like what Giorgio is wearing: http://www.cineplayers.com/img/fotos/5729-johnhughes06.jpg

    Giorgio, compare mio, I think you look like a million bucks. I think the looks suits you wonderfully, and gives you a very mature and put-together vibe.

    Dan, please make a full feature with this gent!

  • http://www.themodestman.com/ Brock

    Well, if he’s gets it all tailored, he’s pretty much burning the bridge to weight gain. Might be a good thing.

    • Herbert Morrison

      You don’t know how right you are. Thanks for reading Brock.

  • ImCasey

    He should get his stuff tailored, show off the new him!

    • Herbert Morrison

      Not new, just better. It was all stomach, we’re Italian , love to eat!

  • AdamE

    There’s a difference between sloppy and full cut. Full cut refers to a tailored garment with a bit more of a relaxed fit, but still tailored to the body (with key fit areas tailored to fit the body), but not necessarily skinny jeans in suiting fabrics…
    This differs from sloppy (what you see many “suits” looking like), which is just an ill fitting suit, which has more material and leeway as with full-cut, but does not dial in key fit points.
    Not sure what others think, but I would say key fit points for me are:
    - the shoulders
    - the silhouette cutting close to the body along the torso, with fuller cut having more allowance in the front/back, but still nipping closely along the sides, rather than sloppy being the boxy fits,
    - sleeve length being another key area, sleeve diameter is another area where you could go slimmer or fuller, without making the suit sloppy,
    - trousers, waist and butt/crotch area should fit your body, while leaving something to the imagination (it’s a suit not a speedo)
    - Length (depending on what you’re aiming for, the amount of break is debatable, but certainly it falls to the sloppy end when you get puddling)
    - Leg diameter leaves room for fuller or slimmer fit, as long as you hit the other points, and you don’t start the foray into MC Hammer territory….

    • TO

      I would add length of the jacket to the discussion (allowing for some length past the seat in some cases of preference and IMO considered more ‘full’) but you hit this pretty spot on!

    • LouCaves

      I agree. There ia a difference between full cut and sloppy. Although this is not sloppy, I can tell there is something juuuuust a little off with regards to the fit.

      But the man lost weight! Cut him some slack (pun intended). He obviously knows his stuff is a little “oversized”. Kudos to you Mr. Aprile on the great work.

      Thanks, TSB.

      • Herbert Morrison

        Thanks Lou!

  • Mdon

    Interesting article…I find myself in a similar situation as ‘Herbert’. In the last year or so, I have lost quite a bit of weight. Today I purchased my first (vintage navy) DB suit. I’ve definitely learned the importance of fit here on TSBmen. Any recommendations on most important alternations? I’d like to slim the jacket for sure (it currently buttons only at the bottom, 3rd button)…

    • TO

      What do you mean it only buttons the bottom button currently?

      • Mdon

        like this…(but in navy)

      • Mdon

        Like this…(in navy)

  • C.

    1998 isn’t ready to have it’s swagger jacked yet. Dan when did you decide that everything you had espoused before was wrong? I appreciate the experimentation but the reason the #menswear movement fucking exploded was the combination of access to information about more fitted/classic tailoring AND the disdain for the poorly fitted and awful clothing ranging from about 1997-2008. Why are we trying to get back to those dark times? If you really wanna espouse a more L.A. vibe look back at this area’s surf culture or western or mexican or asian inspirations that facilitate the clothing attitude here and make them work for the contemporary man. Quit just doing the opposite of what you did before a few years ago in NY and assume you’re striking gold, because dude you’ve been striking out soooooooo badly of late and we’re all really disappointed to see it

    • Stuart

      C.

      I would challenge you on parts of what you wrote here. I absolutely agree that the menswear movement has grown in large part due to a proliferation of information. It’s easier than ever to gain insight from vetted sources – e.g. how a suit should fit, how to mix fabrics, layering, what’s trending, etc. As a result, there is a sizable group of individuals that is guiding men’s fashion wear back towards tailored garments and bespoke suits. I love it. You love it. We all love it.

      It’s also true that in the past ten years the slim fit suit has unquestionably been en vogue. Lapels have narrowed, ties are skinnier, and trousers boast tapered legs and flat fronts. All of this has resulted in that longer, cleaner aesthetic towards which most TSB readers currently strive.

      But this wasn’t always the preferred style. Take a look, for example, at Wayne F. Miller’s photography campaign from 1947 entitled Chicago’s South Side. You see a bunch of great suits that are full and draped yet still clearly tailored. I think that’s the point of this article. It questions whether “slim” and “tailored” are inextricably interwoven or if, instead, there is room in the sartorial debate for fuller cuts. Dan isn’t simply turning in the opposite direction for the hell of it. He’s revisiting a legitimate question on how a suit can be worn.

  • Changingman

    Regarding your question , should he go slim or full cut, I would say go with what fits and flatters his body the best. I would disregard trying to bring back any kind of style whether full or slim and just dress for your body.

  • http://www.postgreenhomes.com/ Chad Ludeman

    This article reminded me a bit of the quote below from the post in April on how to Engineer a Business Wardrobe featuring Ian of “From Squaller to Baller.” Today’s post looks a bit more relaxed than Ian’s, but the element of timeless fashion that one can always look and feel comfortable in is there. As TSB has mentioned many times, confidence in your garb is just as important if not more so than strictly adhering to the “fashion rules” of the current time. I’m paraphrasing here…

    “This is a great example of how I like to dress for a typical workday – simple, neutral-colored tailoring in classic-leaning proportions. I try to avoid overly trendy details like cropped and tapered fits or skinny ties/lapels in my professional clothing. I want to feel like a professional when I’m at work, and I use these clothes to emanate that feeling. Confidence is everything in corporate America, and these items are my secret weapon.” – See more at: http://tsbmen.com/43084/engineering-the-perfect-business-wardrobe-feat-ian-anderson/#sthash.9KNTAZMe.dpuf

  • Khalid

    The jacket and trouser cuts are fine. A little fuller than usual, but not droopy. Jacket sleeves could be a bit longer, and if the pants were of a heavier fabric they would drape a bit better over the shoes. And perhaps a shoe with a fuller profile would be more proportionate to this look. That band collar also seems a bit loose. Perhaps it’s a more a matter of niggling details than anything else.

    Is there a before photo? Congratulations on the weight loss Giorgio!

    • Herbert Morrison

      Thanks bro–I carried it all in the gut bc I used to lay low in the cut

  • Miguel

    I think he might need too since I face the same issue, specially with the jackets.

    I lost some weight and suddenly a few jackets fit too big while at the same time others fit got better, pants also became kind of saggy, so he might need to bring those blazers to the tailor to do some work.

    I’m not saying he should make them slim, just make fit right.

    • Herbert Morrison

      The picture’s a bit deceiving. I need the waist in on the trousers and probably the seat for sure. The jacket I won’t touch bc a few more workouts later the chest and back expand, along with the thighs. Plus taking in the waist on trousers would make them sit properly on the waist thus eliminating the severe break in the pant. Trust me I know what I’m doing ;) Thanks for reading Miguel.

  • Timothy

    It’s SO cool to see content from my home town, Markham!

    • Herbert Morrison

      Holla!

  • Fabio d’attimis

    well… I think it’s up to yuor tastes, but I prefer somthing a bit more tailored.
    Maybe not skinny (as your suit Dan ;D), but no so “roomy”.

  • JM

    There’s nothing wrong with the sack cut, there is however, something wrong with wearing a garment a size or two big that was originally cut to skim and hug the body, as evidence by the darts contouring the sides of the jacket.

    • Herbert Morrison

      The only place the jacket is roomy (by centimetres mind you) is the waist. I could nip the sides and/or centre seam but that’s my favourite, most luxurious jacket I’ve ever owned and after I’ve broken it in, it feels like a second skin. I wish you could see it from the back. Thanks for reading JM!

  • http://unseenflirtspoetry.wordpress.com Unseen Flirtations

    As long as it fits in the shoulders…

    Full cut trousers are ready for a renaissance. Check the last Tom Ford a/w collection and HRMVN (spelling?) ranges for evidence.

    • Anon

      Tom Ford has always pushed a full cut suit so pretty much a fail of an example

      • http://unseenflirtspoetry.wordpress.com Unseen Flirtations

        Ouch. This interweb place is really mean. I’ll be licking my wounds for months.

  • Garland

    He can where whatever he wants, but those cuts do nothing to flatter him. Slim tailoring is not a trend, it is what makes a man’s shape and silhouette the best that it can be.

    • M.

      Agreed.

  • LC

    I’m into it, for the most part. Pants look good. Haircut, attitude and self-confidence all look good. Jacket width is fine but it looks too roomy in the chest in pic 3, like he could easily fit both fists b/t his chest and the jacket. Less roominess there, while still maintaining the same jacket width, would be the sweet spot for me (if it’s possible). Overall, I think he pulls it off and looks good.

    The things that seemed dissonant were the amount of shirt cuff showing and the double monks. The latter is a less conservative/traditional shoe that seems out of place with a fuller cut of clothes. And the amount of cuff showing seems incongruous with the fuller cut, too: b/c everything else has extra fabric it seems weird for the sleeves to be really short.

    • Herbert Morrison

      That particular shirt was cut large in the sleeve and neck by accident–that’s why I chopped off the collar and made a band collar. I agree it’s a bit too aggressive. The whole look was thrown together quick-time–not too shabby when ur pressed for time. Thanks for reading LC!

  • http://Keyboardandcompass.com/ Jeff McAllister

    I, like so many others here, can’t fully get on board with this. I do enjoy fuller cut. In fact, as a cyclist and someone who frequents warmer climates, I appreciate the range of motion and breeziness that many looser fitting pieces allow for. That said, those fits should still be cut to flatter YOUR CURRENT body. And although once upon a time Giorgio’s was, that no longer appears to be the case here.

  • Tom

    Is it just me or do these clothes not look as full-cut as people are making it out to be. I was brought up in Europe and so tend to be favor slim cuts. However, I have also noticed that the dominance of slim-skinny fits in blogs/magazines/online has conditioned to a point where anything that isn’t skinny is basically FULL-CUT. I had this experience recently during which I wore a pair of trousers that were slightly fuller and had the impression that I was swimming in it, despite the fact that various pictures and friends (whose fashion sense I trust) refuted that self-image I had made of myself.

    For Herbert, I actually think the trousers don’t look bad at all, the jacket seems a bit long but shortening it may actually throw off the proportions of the look.

    • Herbert Morrison

      Thanks for reading Tom.

  • Ali Naaseh

    Sloppy. Makes him look frail.

    • Herbert Morrison

      In all fairness we were up the entire night before and I hadn’t eaten anything yet. You should see me after a steam and a bottle of red ;) Thanks for reading Ali

  • Matthias

    “Not only does he look comfortable in the roomier fit clothes, but notice the smooth drape and sheen of the fabric with virtually no pulling or stress signs.”

    Based on what exactly did one come to this conclusion? Albeit the overall silhouette from the gentleman is quite alright, and, no-one outside of menswear would comment on the fit, I wouldn’t state that this is a smooth drape…

    The wrinkles on the sleeves and on the back of the pants, as well as the front of the jacket falling inwards tell a story opposite of a smooth drape. However, I do agree with the fact that it looks like a nice fabric.

    • Herbert Morrison

      I see your point, bear in mind both pieces hadn’t been pressed (or steamed) in a minute. Hopsack ;) Thanks for reading Matthias

  • Anon

    #tailored normcore

  • Shawn

    I think the suit looks fantastic on him and I wouldn’t alter it in any way. Frankly, I’m a bit tired of all the overly skinny wave (maybe except for Khaled Nasr), and although I hope it won’t swing back the other way around (way too big), this right here looks like a happy medium. To the guy below: even tough he shows a little bit more space in his clothes, there’s no way he looks like his mother bought him a cheap suit; he still maintains a classy tailored silhouette, with some room to breath as an added benefit.

    On another note, Dan, what do you think of demographics playing a role on the matter? I’ve noticed lately that more and more of the South East Asia gentleman wear suits with fuller cuts and it looks pretty good in my book (The Armoury HK, B&Tailors et al.). What’s your opinion on the subject?

  • Kevin

    No. No. Wrong. This what a typical suit looks like in my suburban, Midwestern neighborhood, like the sort of shit I see high schoolers wearing who have their moms shop for them. Technically, it’s a fine suit, but the fuller cut is swallows him. It is suits like this that made me want to start dressing better than the people around me, because everyone looked bad.

    Especially if he lost weight, he should get that tailored to show off the shape he’s in now. Seeing the picture on the front page, I honestly thought it was going to be another article on how a suit shouldn’t fit. Fuller cuts need to die, and fast.

  • MN

    Tailored garments should be tailored to the body IMO.

    The “trend” to fuller cuts is purely reactionary.

    Now everyone can buy a skinny suit at H&M “stylish” people think they need to be “different” to maintain their edge.

    I am all about some slouchiness or free-flowing… but not with a tailored garment like a suit.

    If you want to push to the envelope and go with something like that go Yohji / Damir/ Viridi-Anne et al. Something that was made for that style.

    • Cole

      This is spot on.

    • Matthias

      After seeing a few pictures on the Pitti tradeshow earlier on, I came to the conclusion that pants that outline genitals and crumple around the knee with a built in feature of not getting wet in shallow water are still pretty much da shit.

      All jokes aside, non slim cut suits have been around for ages and will be for ages to come. Some people like to wear their clothes how they’re most comfortable and averse from fashion or trends.

      By the way, look at how fashion forward this Prince is, oh my gawd!

    • TO

      Hi MN- I respect your opinion on the matter of what fit is best.

      Though, I don’t understand the part of your argument that says it’s not ok to wear a full cut unless you do it using certain designers’ clothes.
      Also, it certainly doesn’t help that I am not familiar with the designers you mentioned (aside from a quick google search on a couple since you mentioned them).

      But what about these particular designers’ clothes make them more “wearable” or “acceptable” in fuller cuts?

      • JM

        You misunderstood, those designers don’t make full cut suits, they make apparel that is more avant garde

        • TO

          Apologies JM. I see what you were saying now !

      • Read it again

        He never said it wasn’t ok to wear full cut if you aren’t doing it with a certain brand… Go back and read it, if he did say that he would be right.

        You say you don’t understand it, let’s see if you understand this; You are shopping around for a new suit, you want something slim, and short, something more Neapolitan; so you walk into Brooks Brothers and pick up their famous “Sack Suit” but you size down a size thinking it gives you that Italian spezz, but it doesn’t, because the traditional BB sack suit has no shaping methods ie Darts, so you end up looking like you are wearing a suit you bought 5 years ago. Or the other way around, you want something cut full so you walk into Prada and size up by two, thinking the extra material drapes well, but it doesn’t because of the shaping methods used in constructing a Prada suit.

        Does that Make Sense?

        • TO

          @Readitagain: I misinterpreted what JM was saying the first time around.

          I thought he was implying “don’t buy a full cut suit unless it’s from designer x,y or z” but what he was actually saying was “don’t buy full cut suits, but if you want to wear something with more drape and additional fabric beyond the norm of slim garments then check out the unique designs of the clothes [which are not suits] from designers x,y and z, who design their clothes in that style”.

          I think what your describing is something different. But I also get what you’re saying.

          Though I think it is possible in some cases to do what you’re saying and get away with it. For example, in Suitsupply I am a 36 or 38 depending on style but the 34 jacket in their York cut (the most traditionally English ‘fullest’ suit they carry) fits me and ends up looking like a slim tailored blue blazer. Just food for thought.

  • Nate

    There is a distinction to be made here isn’t there? There is the question of your clothes fitting you (i.e. are they too big or too small), and then there is the question of the “the fit”, or the cut.
    I think in the second and third pictures, I would say that the jacket is too big, as well as being full-cut, if you get my distinction. Only marginally though, and I actually thinks the fuller cut suits our man.
    So if he wants to rock that old-school fit, then go for it, but the clothes still need to fit well.
    One thing I do really like here btw are the trousers. They work well, especially with the full break and the cuff.

    • TO

      I think the distinction you are making Nate, and correct me if I am wrong, is that there are still critical fit points that should still be maintained regardless of the overall ‘cut’ of a suit.

      I would assume you agree these would be the fit of the shoulders (sitting flush on the edge of the physical shoulders of the person), and the fit of the waistband of the trousers- so they will ‘sit’ properly somewhere between the hips and naval, depending on rise.
      Also that the sleeves do not extend past the wrists, as there is no room for preference of added length there, the way trouser length can be lengthened to create break as
      per an individual’s preference, especially with an overall more ‘full’ cut.

      To me, past those areas, the rest of the suit’s pattern is pretty much negotiable depending on cut preference.

      • Nate

        Yes, exactly that. If you look at someone like Jimmy Stewart in It’s a Wonderful Life, his suit is full cut (more roomy, full break, high waistband, pleated trousers, large jacket lapels etc), but it still fits.

        There’s a bit of an over-sized trend going on here in the UK. It’s the same thing there. There’s a difference between buying a t-shirt which is roomier and longer in the arms and body, and buying a XXXL when you’re a M.

    • ChrisD

      I agree.. it’s unintentional. Sizing down doesn’t necessarily make something “slim-fit”, just as sizing up (or sizing down the person) doesn’t make this “full-cut”. It COULD (depending on the proportions of the piece the person), but it’s missing the mark here.

      His posture isn’t doing him any favours either. I suffer from this too. Internally-rotated shoulders can create a front-to-back imbalance in the garment, jackets in particular.

    • http://www.lucidlingo.com.au/ Gazman

      Agree. There is ‘fit’ and there is ‘silhouette’. Two different things. The suits worn by, say, Prince Charles, fits him perfectly but the silhouettes are fuller.

  • http://architecture.myninjaplease.com/ dubs

    Giorgio’s look above = fantastic.
    Sure he could take his pieces to a tailor, but it’s subjective to each piece in his wardrobe. If the item is a sail in the wind while walking about town, then get that specific piece tailored to his comfort zone. Confidence is everything, and if the man feels great in his look then why change at all? Also, there is still a slight tapered shape to Giorgio’s suit pieces as is – noticeable in the first image especially.

    • Herbert Morrison

      Too bad there’s no back shot bc the taper is most definitely there. Thanks dubs.

  • cam

    Big congrats on the weight loss. I’m not a fan of a full cut suit as I’m not a fan of the skinny shit either. I think there is a very happy medium which I believe I have found. To me, and again only my opinion, there is a silhouette that is quite perfect without being overly slim or over full cut. We’ve all seen the overly slim and the above just looks like one of those “before” pictures prior to tailoring the suit.
    So to answer your question Dan….no he shouldn’t get his suits tailored to a slim fit, he should simply get them tailored.

    • Herbert Morrison

      Thanks Cam. I hope you get the opportunity to see what I got tailored and what alterations I have done.

  • Harrison G

    Congrats Herbert on the weight loss. That in between zone can be quite frustrating with clothes, I just recently went through a. Rather similar weight change. I would recommend only buying new clothes that are more closely tailored as an incentive to stay your new shape. After a year with no weight gain I would go back into your closet and more aggressively target clothes for either aggressive tailoring or the good will pile. I have found that have clothes that will fit your larger self can be comforting initially but you don’t want it to be crutch in the long run. Congrats again!

    • TO

      I actually tend to disagree in this case Harrison (though you give really sound advice on how to go about making a change in the same situation).

      I wouldn’t suggest Giorgio change his entire wardrobe at this point, but to play it out. I know personally that he pulls off his now ‘full-cut’ clothes really well in person as eluded in the article and I do actually think they look great on him.

      • Harrison G

        TO your right. The reason I suggested giving it a year because it would allow for a more gradual change in what he feels comfortable with. It is a good look on him in the photo either way.

      • JM

        Why do you have to disagree? its been proven via psychological research that a person who still has their clothes before a severe weight loss, is more likely to regain the weight, than if they had gotten rid of them and bought new clothes.

        Harrison said he went through a similar situation, so im sure he would know.

        • TO

          I didn’t know about that study. That’s interesting. If that’s the case I certainly wouldn’t promote to not adapt to the new shape- especially if it’s something Giorgio felt better about in that regard and just in general. The reason why I was disagreeing though was because I know Giorgio has A LOT of tailored clothing and it will be quite a financial burden for him to get all of it tailored and so just to express my opinion that the way his clothes fit now looks good.

          • Herbert Morrison

            ;)

    • Herbert Morrison

      Thanks Harrison!